Mistakes, I’ve made a few. I can admit it.
One thing I have always tried to do when I have made a mistake is to learn from it. What could I have done differently? What other options did I have? How might I have achieved my desired outcome? What will I do if I encounter this same type of situation in the future?
A mistake I’ve made
Sometimes it’s easy to see what I might have done differently. Take the initial trigger in the drama bomb that led up to me leaving WWAB. It was pretty innocent at the time, I thought. Someone in a raid sent me a tell basically whining that the raid wasn’t moving forward because people were too busy playing with their mini pets.
I didn’t really think too much at the time about my actions. From the tell, it sounded as though most of the raid was goofing off. I certainly didn’t know who was or wasn’t. I popped into the vent channel for that raid and mildly said something like, “Hey, guys, raid time is raid time. It’s not time to play with pets.”
As it turned out, only one person had been goofing off and not only was she an officer, she was supposed to be leading the raid. She felt called out. Which I think she should have. But she was also overly sensitive about it and a seed of resentment was planted. A little seed that grew into a fuck off enormous tree of petty revenges.
I should have taken that complaint to the officer channel and asked the officers who were in the raid what was up and who was goofing off. The matter would have been dealt with and much QQ could likely have been avoided.
Oh hindsight, you bitch.
A mistake I tried not to make again
More recently, I had a somewhat similar situation arise. Someone in vent said something that they shouldn’t have. Rather than get all over their case in a public manner, I casually brought it up later. In fact, I have done so a few times now.
But someone else who heard the comment and wasn’t privy to my discussions afterwards assumed I had let it slide. Out of that assumption and several other observations, this person accused me of a few things, including playing favorites.
When I was first starting to try to deal with this unexpected situation, I found myself initially thinking that perhaps I had learned the wrong lesson. Should have I laid the smackdown on in vent? Said something about how we would just talk about that later? Did I need to let everyone know that a serious discussion would take place without letting them know the outcome or the content?
And mostly, did I really want to keep doing this leadership thing if all it meant was that no matter which people I surrounded myself with, they would all always be ascribing me motives and thoughts and actions or lack of actions that weren’t necessarily accurate?
What I have learned
After giving myself more time to think, I don’t believe that the lesson I learned was wrong or that I handled the recent situation inappropriately. I do believe that being in a leadership position will continue to be a source of frustration and heartache for me if I don’t learn to stop taking responsibility for other people’s expectations.
The person who accused me of playing favorites seems to have had an expectation that I should have publicly jumped all over the person who spoke out of turn in vent. While I might have done something to help create that expectation through my actions long ago with that other officer, I don’t think I can or should take responsibility for that expectation still being alive and well in this person’s mind. After all, they saw the fruit of that mistake and the only logical thing to conclude is that I would try to avoid making the same mistake again.
Along with that, I can’t take responsibility for situations where people pass judgments on me without ever bothering to talk to me about whatever leadership failing they think I am displaying. Nor can I spend all my time explaining my every thought and action to everyone who might have read it wrong. It’s too much to ask of anyone.
It’s likely pertinent to note that this new guild is without officers because I expected people to be able to police themselves. I don’t see the need to BE WROTH AND SMITE THEM ALL just because I happen to be the GM. Being the GM of adults shouldn’t require me to babysit and I just won’t do it. I will deal with legitimate problems, but as long as everyone is making progress towards our stated goals, I don’t really care how they go about it.
So now I am hoping I have learned a good and truthful lesson from this latest accusation of making mistakes. And I am trying to internalize that I am not culpable for other people’s expectations not being met. Lastly, I have determined that I will not spend any more time trying to defend myself to these particular accusations. If the history of my character isn’t enough for someone to believe my stated intentions, then what good will mere words do?
But I still wish things hadn’t shaken out this way.
I think being an officer/gm is a true test of figuring out leadership. I have struggled with this in the past and continue to ‘watch myself’ now.
Our GM Tony (who is working on his phd paper atm and I get to play cat herder) keeps with the motto that transparency is the best overall. Therefore, we talk about stuff in main channel all the time. That isn’t to say that sometimes people don’t pull us aside to vent or voice opinions as they do. But in general, we talk openly about any decisions that were made. We type them out in guild chat too as not all people are on vent all the time.
I also am very careful not to ask for favors from guildies, afraid they will think they have to comply cause I am an officer. I don’t want to set up that paradigm either.
Yet, it is a constant battle of watching what I say and how people perceive it. And frankly, it can wear on me sometimes.
Good post.
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You said you wanted dissenting opinions!
I have seen the “we aren’t going to have officers in our new group!” solution to the “OMFG, the officers in our last group were the worst thing ever!!” and in my experience it is usually a short lived utopia that follows. Groups of people larger than 2-4 need to have someone who is in charge in order to reach and maintain a sustainable and productive equilibrium. There are dozens of different leadership styles and countless types of team dynamics that can bear fruit and identifying the one that works best for you and your group is going to be an ongoing process that persists through the life of any group.
What I see in the above post isn’t so much a group of adults without any need for officers officers being described but rather a group with one person (you) slowly shouldering the responsibilities of leadership that you so recently celebrated leaving behind. Be wary of the path that will lead you to burning yourself out, the seeds are already beginning to sprout in between the lines of this post.
Best of luck with the new endeavor and feel free to hit me up if you ever want to chat more about this stuff offline!
I think your ambition of having an officer-less, GM-less guild is a great one. It’s what my guild uses and I have never seen ANY drama or conflict. Now granted, this might be just our unique combination of personalities, but I really fail to see why peers cannot simply regulate and discuss things like adults and not worry about who’s saying what behind people’s backs and get all petty.
In our Vent discussions/raids, we’re all officers, all equals. No one has any more “authority” than anyone else. Personally, I’m very anti-confrontation, and am frequently the one to cool rising tempers or frustrations with a boss fight and keep everyone working together. Or if we have a PUG who’s being a bit too aggressive or out of line, I’ll say something neutrally diplomatic that moves us past the issue without anyone getting butthurt. I’m not the GM, but I just do it because it helps us function as a team and avoid conflict. And it works fine.
In your example, you say someone said something regrettable in Vent, and someone took offense and didn’t witness your followup discussion later. I think this person is very justified in being concerned – perhaps they wondered if this was the right guild for them, if someone could (apparently) say such things freely.
HOWEVER. The correct step is to bring it up to the GM, not fly into accusations and drama mode. If it was something very objectionable (racism or something) then by all means, ask the GM why that was allowed and find out what’s going on. And if it was something less blatant and more of a personal objection – such as how some players object to using crazy as a derogatory term – perhaps the GM didn’t even realize it was offensive!
Flying off the handle with jealousy and resentment is the signs of an immature player. Even if they were completely justified in being offended at the initial remark, there’s no excuse for acting like a child instead of approaching you to have a mature discussion.
Alas isn’t our mom.
If Rhii takes my cookie, I need to make a token effort to explain to Rhii why I’m deserving of the cookie before bringing in Alas. I think people in multi-officer guilds aren’t used to talking to people directly when there is a problem, but rather lean all too heavily on the officers to deal with their (admittedly sometimes petty) complaints.
I can either ask Rhii for my cookie or I can decide that the cookie wasn’t that important and move on. If I don’t talk to Rhii about the cookie, I don’t get to be mad about the cookie. Rhii may not even know that she has the cookie, having possibly looted it by accident.
Going to Alas about said cookie should not be an option unless it’s a full batch of cookies and Rhii refuses to return them.
The problem is not the lack of officers. The problem is people being perplexed as to how to cope with their own problems without them.
I have decided that there is no winning that situation.
I have handed things publically and been resented for it (especially when not all officers were doing the same).
I have handed things quietly and had people assume I was doing nothing (even Cranky Tank made this assumption, which actually lead to me being very wounded in his direction because of all people who should know better!).
In the end there are some things that should be handed one way, and some the other, and you’ll never always be sure which is which and someone somewhere will be butt hurt.
…and that’s the life of a GM. :|
As with most things I suppose there is no pleasing everyone, and so we shouldn’t try. I think as long as we do what we think is best, and try to do it consistently (once we find the best way to do so) that’s all that we can do.
You obviously weren’t trying to call a single person out in that raid, and had no way of knowing that’s what the case was. Later on you handled it in private, and still people complained.
For me, I always prefer to handle things in private. I don’t think there’s any reason to hang people’s dirty laundry out for the entire guild to see. Sure, if they keep doing the same thing over and over again after being talked to – then all bets are off, but for the most part I really prefer to have conversations one on one.
I had an additional though, so another comment!
In a former MMO I played, I was the GM of a small guild (around 12-15 people). The entire objective of the endgame in this MMO was Guild vs Guild PVP.
I found the best approach that worked for us was to be absolutely up front, public, and open about everything. Sometimes this led to hurt feelings. I lost a guildie after publicly having to bring up his offensive /gchat language, which some other guildies had whispered me was offending them. He got upset and left the guild. However, the rest of the guild greatly appreciated the fact that they knew I would “go to bat” for them if they had concerns, and the ex-guildie (once he calmed down) didn’t hold any grudges, since he knew it wasn’t personal – our policy about language was very clear and he knew he’d crossed the line.
So what was the end result? We lost a skilled guildie, but also rid ourselves of a negative influence in the guild. A worthwhile trade. And the rest of the guild appreciated that our guild’s #1 priority was people’s comfort/concerns, rather than our PVP rank. This attitude may not fly for “serious” guilds, but I believe that a guild working in harmony will always be a more worthwhile experience than one where everyone is resentful/apprehensive of a few other members.
It’s my cookie and Zel can’t have it!
I am disturbed and concerned that we’re already having drama. :( However, since I haven’t had a private word with you, I will rejoice in the fact that it wasn’t I who said the regrettable thing in vent.
That said, if I DO say a regrettable thing in vent, please do let me know, whether publically or privately, that I may adjust and no longer say these things. Also, perhaps if the issue is the people who were offended not knowing that something was done about it, I would hope that a word in the ear of the original offender might convince them to apologize? I hope we’re not a group of people who won’t admit if we said something dumb and hurt someone else’s feelings. You know, if I called Zel a dirty mulcher in jest, but she was actually offended by it, or if I made a derisive remark about er, plumbers, without realizing that Zel’s mom was one, I would WANT to apologize for that.
Alas! Rhii won’t give me back my cookie!
*eats cookie*
Problem solved.
I like the way my RL dealt with it. He’ll do a general comment over Vent right there, like “The DPS needs to be stepped up.” No specific names, and very vague, not even specific sub-roles, like raid healing or adds DPS. Very general for the target of the message, but still saying, “Hey, there’s this issue, and it needs to be fixed now.”
Then, he’ll whisper in private to the specific person or party that needs the fixing attention. So if you are the party in question, you don’t feel called out, but also if you’re J Random Player who pulls her weight, you feel like the situation was at least acknowledged if not fully addressed.
Though, I feel like he’s slacking a bit on the public end and resorting to more private calling out. Guildies are starting to gt stressed by the pressure he puts out sometimes, intentional or not. =/
So I was only a GM for a very short period of time, and the guild overwhelmingly consisted of people I had known IRL for ten plus years and the ability to openly publicly and even at the bar on off WoW nights call people out for their tomfoolery largely avoided that kind of nonsense. But I’ve been an officer in several guilds that weren’t mine, and (probably more relevantly) I’ve managed groups of 10-30 employees often enough that I’ve found myself in the same spot. In one job I was managing a group of commissioned sales people who had been in their jobs for an average of 5-7 years. Figuring that the best thing to do with folks who were mature adults who were experienced at their roles was to leave them alone I tended to run that division like a guild with no officers, and I had the same problem that you just ran into. Mostly they talked it out amongst each other when one took another’s cookie, but every so often two of them just couldn’t agree and one would come to me to complain. I handled it the same way you did with this recent drama, took the “problem” employee aside, talked over what had happened, and at the end of the discussion was satisfied that things were resolved. Much to my surprise I learned later that other employees thought I was “favoring” the one who I had talked too, because they just didn’t know what had happened. (I probably could have summed that up by saying “I’ve had the same thing happen to me) So the lesson I ended up taking away from that is that whenever you have to give a lesson in private, make sure you repeat it in public, without mentioning any names or pointing any fingers. (Ok so that wasn’t quite the level of disagreeing I promised over twitter.)
I have been too busy reading Twitter to concentrate on reading this post, but I’m quite sure I disagree with whatever it is.
I must have missed that. To be honest unless I’m being directly involved I tend to ignore pretty much anything that ressembles drama so I might have just missed it.
As many have said before I too have been a guild leader/officer/raid leader and you cannot win. No matter what you do there’s always someone who will complain.
For my part, I am impressed by the guild so far and we are doing awesome. I like the no officer part and I wish we can continue like this.
In Adrenaline we always have the same answer to things like that:
“how do you know we did / didn’t do this?” or
“did you actually ask us about this directly?” or
“how is this a concern of yours?”.
You don’t have to meet anyone’s expectations but the ones you and your co-officers agreed on. you can’t meet others anyway, as you have found out too; people have different views on the same things. you can never make all of them happy.
what you can do is be frank and transparent. and if need be, you can tell somebody how majorly disappointed you are that he would assume the worst of the leadership like that. just because they don’t know something, doesn’t mean you aren’t taking care of it. before they have any right to judge, they should have asked you first about if or why. also: some things are simply officer only (depending on your type of guild).
i’ve had conversations like that with guildmates in the past, altough luckily we hardly have members accusing us of anything by now. it’s a lot of work to get there and gain people’s trust however, and it never quite ends.
We run our guild simple:
Starter Rank – you just joined.
No Authenticator Rank – sorry, no gbank access.
Member Rank – neato!
Officer Rank – you can invite people, and kick people.
GM Rank – for GM alts because I don’t want to switch toons.
This tends to keep drama to a minimum because the officers are not treated like gods or otherwise, they understand it means I trust them to make decisions when I’m not there, and to invite peoples alts to the guild when I’m AFK for a popsicle or something.
There has never been an issue with ranks and we don’t give priorities to raiders over solo players.
If you’re a GM in name only then why is the offended person not stepping up?
What guilds that have no officers are trying to emulate, I feel, is the true definition of Anarchy.
“No rulership or enforced authority”
However, for it to truly function it needs people to all have equal responsibility. This means that if something is bothering that person then THEY need to say something, public or private.
I feel you’ve picked up a poisoned chalice.
I disagree that it needs to be Anarchy, it could just as easily be a Utopian, Socialist, Communist, or Free Market “society” that emerges out of group with no designated authority.
What I do agree with is that the only way to truly form a community like this is for everyone in it to recognize that they have an individual responsibility equal to everyone else’s when a situation arises that requires someone present to accept the responsibility and “do whatever needs to be done”
@Alas; The fact that anyone is “coming to you” in reference to something that you weren’t present for and asking for anything other than advice about how they themselves should handle it is demonstrative of your own percieved authority within the group. You get to decide whether you want to accept that role, regardless of how informal/unacknowledged it may be or whether you are really interested in trying to keep everyone as equal as possible.
Several years ago, a real life friend of mine from grad school went through a similar experiment with a WoW guild. Their group proposed to handle the situation by creating a level 1 alt who they promoted to GM and then promptly killed. The level 1 GM was left as a ghost for the entire life of the guild. Everyone else in the guild was placed at the same rank and given the exact same access/power/privledge as everyone else. (This was pre-guild banks and such, nowadays, it would probably be advisable to have some sort of initiate rank who doesn’t have free reign over the bank)
Again, best of luck! I’m looking forward to hearing how the whole thing plays out.
Ahh the joys of running a guild. There will always be people that attach false motivations and intentions to things that you do, but in my experience, as long as you are consistent and do what you do for the greater good of the guild then things generally work out over time. Of course there will be bumps in the road, but eventually you will end up with mostly like minded people that realize it’s not all about them, nor is it all about you.
Now if I could just get them to stop standing in fire :-)
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